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The Cosmic Journal Episode 1, Guest Astrologer: Gary Kidgell

The Cosmic Journal Astrology Podcast with Mira Cosic. The guest of the show is Gary Kidgell, an esoteric astrologer from Scotland, UK. The show was originally recorded in January of 2017.

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Produced by: Mira Cosic

November 2017.


Gary Kidgell, astrologer

GUEST OF THE SHOW: Gary Kidgell, an esoteric astrologer from Scotland, UK.

This interview brought up so many wonderful topics: Pluto in Capricorn, astrology, seven rays, spirituality, culture, and the dualistic nature of the world that we all live in. Our discussions could be expanded to several hours.  However, due to our limited podcast time, I’m presenting you with the most interesting part of my phone conversation with Gary Kidgell.

Gary possesses a lifelong interest in all matters esoteric and has been a serious student of Ancient Wisdom for over thirty years. He completed a Bachelor’s Degree in Metaphysics through Dr Douglas Baker’s Claregate College, England and was then invited to become a course tutor and contributor.

Gary is a professional astrologer specialising in esoteric astrology and regularly holds astrology classes. For the last fifteen years Gary has lectured extensively throughout the UK and Europe on various esoteric subjects. In 2015, Gary published his acclaimed book ‘The Inner Journey: Pathways to the Higher Self“. The book is available on


MIRA COSIC: Hello and greetings!  How’s life in Scotland?  There a lot of news coming from you.


GARY KIDGELL: Hello! It is fine. Yeah, lot of political instability in the UK, as you possibly already know.


MIRA COSIC: Thank you for joining the call. Can you tell me from your perspective, and from this point in time, who is Gary Kidgell?  How did you get here (to this point of your spiritual path)?


GARY KIDGELL: I am an esoteric, soul-centered astrologer. I also lecture in metaphysics and the teachings of ancient wisdom which are primarily rooted in theosophy and its various offshoots (authors). I developed an interest in esoteric matters from my serious interest in 1983 when I was in London. I was looking into tarot cards in a shop and clearly, not by accident, a very well dressed American gentleman came over and started up a conversation with me. He spoke about the value and the symbolism of the cards and said that spiritual development would be a very good thing to get into. That event planted a seed a couple of nights later when I was in an area of the theater cafe. My girlfriend came across a shop named “Mysteries” where she saw some books and tarot cards. Something clicked. I was about 23 or 24 years old and I said this is what my life’s about this is my call to adventure as Joseph Campbell a great student would say.


MIRA COSIC: Beautiful!  So, that’s how it started. Were you also involved in astrology?  How much are you still into tarot and in what respect?


GARY KIDGELL: It’s the astrology primarily. For two or three years after the event that I described to you, I was studying kabbalah, tarot cards. My girlfriend bought me an astrology book for Christmas where it said, “you had the right mind for astrology”. And that planted a seed. I have decided to study it seriously. I studied in my spare time. It took me about a year before I was confident enough to do charts. As most of the astrologers, I began by doing friends’ charts and developed from there. I was into traditional astrology for five or six years. I started a group in my own city and then my interest in wisdom teachings developed. I was meditating. I moved over to esoteric astrology. I came in touch with the work of Dr. Douglas Baker, an esotericist from England. I went to metaphysics college there. He advised a specific type of metaphysics astrology using planetary rulers of Alice Bailey. Then, I kind of crossed over between 1992 and 95 using the mixture of two methods. I always started with a traditional reading. And then, the last 15 to 20 minutes of the consultation I was experimenting with esoteric rulers which were very popular and relevant. I thought, that was the way to go for me. I’m certainly not denigrating traditional astrology in any way. That’s fantastic work. They are just different symbol system focusing primarily on different areas of the human psyche.


MIRA COSIC: I see different branches of astrology actually, as different languages. We can communicate using each one of them. We can communicate using traditional astrology as well. Sometimes people come to astrology with (down to earth) questions, very practical questions, materialistic in nature. They say, “When am I going to get married? I am trying to buy a car. When is a good day?  What is going on with my job?”  Astrology can definitely function at that level. But then, sooner or later, you sort of have to go through stages of evolution and development. Because, natal chart stays the same, but we don’t.


GARY KIDGELL: Exactly, yes. That’s the thing that Rudhyar said. It’s a response to a cosmic need. As we develop and grow, the soul also comes back with its mechanism of personality. We choose different, should we say “higher expression” of the astrological archetypes. That is what he found. The astrology that I practice does have a practical side to it as well. However, it is very much about evaluating the soul’s purpose, different ways in which it would be expressed. It does have a practical side also. But I would add that astrologers attract their own clients. This would probably never happen. If someone came to me with a purely materialistic reading request, I would simply refer them to one of my astrology friends in Scotland. I know most of the top astrologers here. It would not be difficult for me to say hey there is an astrologer with great reputation and experience. You know, you should go there. Some of these people referred clients to me in the past. Because they say, “What you were asking about is more metaphysical in a sense of soul and body; and you know, this guy may be able to help”.


MIRA COSIC: This may be a good time for you to say something about your book. What is the title?  Of course you talk about esoteric astrology in your book. You mention seven rays and you tap into some really interesting spiritual topics. What is the book called and how can we find it?


GARY KIDGELL: The book is called ‘The Inner Journey: Pathways to the Higher Self”. It’s available on Amazon,

It is also available on the site of the metaphysical group which I’m a part of, Douglas Baker Books at


I’m part of a group that offers online audiovisual courses. One of them is entitled “The foundation of esoteric studies”. My book is one of the textbooks for that particular course. That is one of the reasons I wrote so it is a companion to the course. I actually compiled materials for the course based on the work of Dr. Douglas Baker. I put my book together.


MIRA COSIC: Thank you for that. If I would come to you as a student who has interest in this but yet not so much knowledge, and if I wondered what could I really learn from the course; what is in it for me, what am I going to learn, or how to apply it to my own life or to the lives of people around me… What would you say is the purpose of the course?


GARY KIDGELL: The course goal is to offer to students grounding in metaphysical principles. I would particularly reference to the spiritual transformation. When one enters study of esoteric, they suddenly encounter volumes and volumes of books many of them written in a bygone age. This makes teachings looks very abstract and difficult to get handle upon. That’s why Dr. Baker considered this to be his lifetime work, to transfer these wisdom teachings into the language of today. Our course is about that. It introduces people to underlying spiritual principles which are relatively simple to understand. The secret of studying esoteric is to always engage with the principles, not to read, and read, and read. One should read what is relevant and ponder on it. Things such as, our universe is living. The matter serves as an expedient of spirit. The spirit is engaged on its own evolutionary journey to develop and to express its latent qualities.


We are part of the planetary consciousness. All the souls and humanity are part of this. This is what we mean when we say that my soul and your soul are the same. Spiritual development is about building the link to the soul, Antahkarana, which we also call a “rainbow bridge”.


As a means of accessing the soul’s energies and qualities and expressing them in the world, the soul is a symbolic bolt that unfolds when we express its qualities in this incarnation. These are basic metaphysical principles and this is where then subjects like astrology and rays come into it because they correspond with the dynamics of the psyche and spiritual purpose. As you know, astrology is essentially a map of the human psyche as a response to the universal need. When we seek spiritual development, we are seeking to flow with the intent of the cosmos, the greater lives that we are a part of. Astrology is probably the most profound esoteric piece in that respect.


So, my book was along those lines, it’s not just an astrological book …  It’s a book about the spiritual path. Relating this to Jung’s work and the wisdom teachings. The Jung’s concept of archetypes and divine ideas – how to register within human psyche, in symbols. What Jung was basically saying was that the soul communicates to us in a symbolic language. The kind of astrology that Dr. Baker developed enables one to take placements in the chart, write them in a spiritual diary and proposition the unconscious. We receive symbolic feedback through dreams and meditations which relate to the particular archetypes. It’s an abstract subject but it is something that I love. Spiritual development is all about this and to come back in developing the higher mind, an abstract thought. Carl Jung’s work very much laid down the foundation for it.


MIRA COSIC: It sounds very abstract but in general, it is also very practical. People go with their lives and they often get stuck. They achieve some level of success but they are not happy. They say, “Why is this happening to me?  Should I maybe have a drink to relax or should I meditate and I don’t know how to meditate. I never meditated. I don’t want to meditate. I don’t know what to do, my life is going nowhere. I have everything I need; I’m married I have children but I’m not happy”. That is the point in life when one starts looking a little bit deeper and when people have to research a little bit more into the question why they are here; why do they exist.


GARY KIDGELL: Absolutely, Mira. That is one of the wisdom teachings that we refer to as the “divine unrest” when the affairs of the outer world and transient circumstances are no longer enough. We become aware that something is missing from our lives that is to say, that’s the stage when the spirit is coming into matter has got a lot of various experiences; spirit wants to experience every lesson life has to offer. And that is effectively like being “called back to the father’s house”. We see this in fairy tale stories. In Wizard of Oz, Dorothy is trying to find the way home, as an example. But basically one must then focus on higher things because satisfying the basic desires is no longer enough. The divine is helping to bring the spirit in in the matter to engage with the material world but once we reach that saturation point that must be transmuted into higher qualities so we talk about transferring solar plexus chakra energies into the heart chakra ones…  It’s a part of this process. And as you say it doesn’t matter how successful one is, if they are at the state of evolution where they were being called to adventure, they must express the intent of the soul. If they are not doing that, the soul will begin to withdraw its energy from it. At that time, things like depression may occur and it’s very common amongst people especially in the western world.


MIRA COSIC: What is transcendence?


GARY KIDGELL:  In terms of the wisdom teachings, there are different degrees of transcendence. But in terms of the human psyche, it is when we are connected to the source of our being so that we have transcended limitations of our own human mind. Then, there would be different planes of consciousness. The ways than teachings say that we are a part of the bigger planetary consciousness. In terms of transcendence, we can tune to the level of that planetary consciousness. That’s when we talk about the initiation in wisdom teachings. But, then we can go beyond that. There’s a great being operating through our solar system. We are at the level of our spiritual essence. That’s the wisdom teaching. That is a higher, more profound level of transcendence in terms of the soul. It’s a good way of looking at that. If you’re able to to remove your chain so you’re not looking at the shadows on the wall and go behind that it’s a form of transcendence and then when you leave your cave that is a level of spirit that is a higher one. It’s linked to the great yoga teachings of the east and Patanjali where is the ways than teachings would say their different levels. But the secret is not to try to intellectualize all this because you’re not going to go anywhere beyond the level of the mind than.


MIRA COSIC: There’s a lot to ask and a lot more to research. There are many explanations for this in your book. Again, I would recommend that people stop by your web sites and listen to your messages. There’s a class on YouTube that I found, that you gave recently.


GARY KIDGELL: Oh yes and that is a class that I gave in Wales. I wasn’t aware that it was being filmed with all the audiovisual work I was slightly skeptical. It was filmed with only one camera. Normally, you would use two cameras and an editing process. But it came over quite well.


MIRA COSIC: I’m sure you will develop more classes and post them online in the future. My questions, in order to wrap this conversation up will be about politics. You are in the midst of a political process (in Europe) that is very dynamic and maybe even disturbing. How do you see that area of the world right now?  Where is it going?  How do you see the world as a whole?  Is this process of evolution very slow, is it even happening?  Are we devolving or going forward?


GARY KIDGELL: We live in very interesting times. In terms of the seven rays, the dominant rays are changing right now. We are now in the age of Aquarius which is strong seventh ray quality. It’s the ceremonial order and ritual. As you’re probably aware, the same planet that rules Aquarius also rules the world wide web. The things that are being connected are the things that are precipitating, because the seventh ray is about magic and something from within giving its manifestation. We’re seeing a lot of this at the moment. The fourth ray is also coming into manifestation. And the dense political structure in the past that ruled cities and states I think it will come to a smaller one. We’ll see smaller governmental mechanisms governing smaller areas later being connected into a bigger whole. As you know as an astrologer, Pluto in Capricorn is creating a big havoc in the area of established governments. Within the UK, we see this very much as well as nationalism in Scotland. There was a recent referendum which the nationalists passed. Scotland would really like to stay in the European Union; Ireland as well but that is not very significant with England and Wales including London. So it may well be that the UK splits and Scotland once to go with Europe. Obviously England would like to upgrade ties with the European countries but we’re not going back a few hundred years when we had British empire in those days. Very interesting times!  And I think again, like any process there are different aspects of anything. This would be a Shiva aspect where the creator maintains the world. Well, the structure no longer serves the purpose. The Shiva aspect is the first ray. Pluto is the first ray planet. It’s in Capricorn which is as you know practical and it rules traditional matters, it rules structure. In esoteric astrology, he also rules Scotland. That’s the thing. So we shall see a lot of interesting times. As humanity is an entity, everything is connected and we are witnessing great challenges. Just as we grow apart we must integrate our soul and personality to create what they called “psycho-synthesis”. Eventually, humanity must exist and in the present times we’re seeing great challenges which manifests with a clash of cultures between east and west. I won’t go into that with any great extent but it is something that humanity itself will have to resolve. We’re seeing the old Piscean age structures which are under threat particularly religion. I think all roads lead to Rome that you know all of the spiritual practices are valid. It’s when people come from the level of the emotion and distort Them and the problems arise. But we’re seeing so many challenges here in terms of humanity being required to get things together. We also see that capitalism has worked well in the west, obviously it came about through Protestantism. If we continued with Catholicism we would have never had capitalism. Now, capitalism is creating problems. It is divisive. People are losing sight of the fact that we have a greater whole and of course, you know that banks are ruled by Taurus. These are great big subjects and I’m not a politician. I recall what Jung has said that all the problems are created within the human psyche. We must all address this as individuals as these are very important issues.